tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21633793.post4564588886577745061..comments2023-12-12T03:19:42.467-05:00Comments on CYB3RCRIM3: Virtual Extortion?Susan Brennerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17575138839291052258noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21633793.post-71578223855752864752011-04-08T13:49:48.978-04:002011-04-08T13:49:48.978-04:00Okay here is what I don't understand and why n...Okay here is what I don't understand and why no one had made this connection. What's the difference between virtual goods and the virtual credits a video poke machine, lotto/scratch ticket dispensing machine? Both are represented digitally once real world currency has paid for them. All this argument about digital/virtual/etc.... There is no difference between a video poker,slot machine displaying digitally and virtually your credits/currency/goods than a computer screen representing your credits/currency/goods. It's a hypocrisy if digital representation of value on a casino slot machine is upheld but digital representation on a computer screen isn't upheld. The only argument I see would be proving that there exists a method of reconverting the digital representation back to real world currency.YoonYoungJonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21633793.post-18157934154525668842009-06-11T08:09:28.274-04:002009-06-11T08:09:28.274-04:00Good thoughts, Siggy.
I like the idea that the di...Good thoughts, Siggy.<br /><br />I like the idea that the discussions maybe conflates "value" and what "something's worth." <br /><br />That reminds me of an issue I posted on a while back: The rather recent development of the crime of theft of services. For years, US law (anyway) didn't see "stealing" electricity or phone service as a crime . . . as a kind of theft. As to why it didn't, I can see a kind of analogy between what you're talking about: In one sense, both only have value in a specific context, i.e., virtual goods in a virtual environment, electricity in the kind-of virtual context of using it to power something (I know this is pretty weak).<br /><br />It took US law many years to accept the notion that by misappropriating something you weren't entitled to, you committed theft . . . even if the thing you took was fungible (as I've said before, electricity and wheat are examples of fungible commodities, the Hope Diamond is a good example of a distinctive and therefore non-fungible commodity) and even if it didn't have tangible form. <br /><br />You would think, though, that by now we'd gotten over that tangible property as the focus of theft notion.Susan Brennerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17575138839291052258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21633793.post-14910356116644568502009-06-10T14:29:54.243-04:002009-06-10T14:29:54.243-04:00The concept of "value" as it applies to ...The concept of "value" as it applies to virtual world goods is a tricky one to make real to people who do not use virtual worlds. For many people, the notion that a virtual world can have some sort of real economy or contain valuable products is hard to grasp. When virtual property has a clear link to real money, you can then make some sort of rational argument for the protection of such property. Thus, in worlds such as the Second Life(TM) environment, the unit of in-world currency is explicitly linked to real life with an exchange rate. I can trade (and do) my Linden dollars for real world dollars and then spend them on real world goods. If someone steals $10,000 Linden dollars from me, that's real value.<br /><br />A second issue is that the sums involved in virtual transactions can be interpreted to be so small as to not be important. A Second Life shirt may cost L$100=0.30 cents, so losing your shirt appears to be fairly minimal in terms of impact. However, if someone is selling 1000 of these and some else copies them and sells them marked down, that is real cash being taken.<br /><br />But essentially, these are simply examples of micropayments, and the online world is becoming a veritable universe of micropayments, where each microtransaction is tiny but the sum of them all can be huge.<br /><br />So I think conceptually, the notion of whether something has "value" or not gets mixed up with "what's it worth," which means stealing a micropayment for a virtual shirt isn't seen as criminal - perhaps at best a nuisance. It's interesting to note that virtual world "griefers" - individuals who commit acts of theft and vandalism in virtual worlds - do not see any of their actions as being in any sense criminal: They see it as fun and people need to "lighten up" rather than take their "game" too seriously. Clearly the notion of "value" to these folks is very different from the person who has just had $30 of virtual products destroyed.<br /><br />Just some thoughts.Siggyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17434573432377838931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21633793.post-75700007218921077562009-05-27T15:42:08.760-04:002009-05-27T15:42:08.760-04:00People claim that IP blocks needed by ISPs can not...People claim that IP blocks needed by ISPs can not be bought and sold.<br /><br />That is not the case with IPv3.<br /><br />http://www.IPv3.comAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21633793.post-27395243264969278982009-05-27T11:16:53.011-04:002009-05-27T11:16:53.011-04:00Good question. I really don't know the answer, be...Good question. I really don't know the answer, because there aren't any cases (criminal, anyway) on that issue, as yet.<br /><br />If we go with my idea of digital property as something that has value in the digital world (and maybe also in the real world), and if we're prepared to accept "value" in the virtual world as the equivalent of "value" in the real world, then it should constitute "anything of value" for the purposes of applying extortion and theft and other property crime laws.<br /><br />I'd also argue that the game rules aren't saying virtual goods don't have value; I think they implicitly concede that virtual goods have value, since they seem to be based on the proposition that the game owner will lose something if the virtual goods are exchanged for real world money.Susan Brennerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17575138839291052258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21633793.post-86931392841519516992009-05-27T09:50:00.460-04:002009-05-27T09:50:00.460-04:00Many games forbid the sale of their virtual goods ...Many games forbid the sale of their virtual goods by their terms of service. Would that kind of restriction affect the status of virtual goods as property? It might still be considered information or data, but does it still constitute "anything of value" if it can't be exchanged (by the terms of service, at least) for money?samiamthelawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06370481318698240885noreply@blogger.com